Exploring the deep mysteries and infinite wonders of existence, through music, art and words…. celebrating this unfathomable, miraculous life.
Interviews
Dutch Music Magazine iO
August 2019
Thanks to Paul Rijkens for posting this.
ANDREW FORREST: PAINTING WITH MUSIC
Originally English musician Andrew Forrest lives in New Zealand. From that impressive country he creates fantastic, atmospheric, wide and symphonic electronic music. He actually paints with music.
Where lies your musical background? How and when did you start making music?
“The first musical influences were from listening to the music being played around me in early childhood. My grandfather loved listening to classical music, especially Mahler and Bruckner, and improvised on the piano. My mother listened to a broad spectrum of classical music too. I am the youngest of 5 children, so heard all the early 60’s pop when it came
out! My sisters had all the Beatles singles…my first experience of playing records…such amazing music, label designs and colours. I was about 5 at the time…the Fab Four blew my young mind! Then there were a few years spent singing in the church choir, until my voice broke in 1970. I absolutely loved that transcendent communal experience, especially at Christmas and Easter time. Magical, innocent times. Next came all the 70’s teenage years of listening to classical, pop, prog and psychedelic rock, electronic, singer-songwriter and folk music. I learned to play acoustic guitar when I was 18, but the piano was calling really strongly in the late 80’s. Whilst living in Glastonbury, I had access to a beautiful grand piano, and played for several hours daily, whenever possible, for well over a year, around 1989. Then I bought my first synth, a Korg 01WFD, and never looked back. This was around 1991. It has a 16 track sequencer built in, so I did the whole of my first album just using that synth alone!”
You create more forms of art, like painting, illustrating and poetry. Do you see a connection between these forms of art?
“Yes, definitely. My main inspiration and joy has always been to create beauty, mystery, emotion and energetic expansiveness through these creative expressions. To me, music seems the most immediate and powerful of these modalities.”
As a musician, do you feel like somewhat painting with music?
“Yes! The two mediums are in a sense interchangeable. In painting exhibitions visitors would often comment that they ‘hear’ the paintings as sound, and vice versa…they would often ‘see’ the music as sacred geometry, landscapes, or other visual imagery. Either way, it’s all pure energy expressing itself.”
You have worked together with filmmaker Jean-Luc Bozzoli on his animated films Merkabah, Voyage Of A Starseed and Whales And Dragons. What can you tell me about this?
“Jean-Luc is an inspirational filmmaker, and his wife came to one of my Glastonbury art exhibitions in the 90’s. She suggested to Jean-Luc to use my music on one of his already- made films, so Starseed became the alternative soundtrack to his first full-blown animation film. With Whales and Dragons, I had a relatively easy job of remixing a track from my Infinite Octaves album. His cosmic imagery seems to ‘merge’ easily and effortlessly with my music…a very fortunate symbiotic creative process.”
In 1998, you moved to New Zealand. This country has a spectacular variation in nature. To me, it is no wonder that the Lord Of The Rings movies were filmed there. Has living in New Zealand affected your music?
“Definitely! New Zealand has an amazing variety of majestic, unspoilt scenery. I love the wilderness, and regularly go walking alone, especially in the mountains. Many musical ideas have come from being out in the wild…I literally hear whole passages of music….and somehow these inspirational moments get transcribed into the recordings. It’s a complete mystery to me how that happens!”
In England, you – amongst other places – have lived in Glastonbury. Was that also a source of inspiration for you?
“For sure! I wanted to live in Glastonbury many years before moving there in 1987. I always resonated strongly with the place, it’s ancient, mystical reputation and magical vibe. I printed my first ‘visionary’ art cards and posters there, and like I said, developed my piano playing whilst living in the crazy Glastonbury vortex! A very powerful, stimulating, inspirational, place.”
What inspires you in general making this music?
“A big question! Firstly, all the great music that has come before…anything from Beethoven to Vaughan Williams, Ravel to Debussy, 60’s psychedelia, 70’s progressive rock, early electronic/ambient explorations of Tangerine Dream, Tim Blake, Brian Eno, Vangelis and so on, to the 80’s ambient pioneers like Michael Stearns, Jonn Serrie, Steve Roach and Constance Demby. Plus 70’s jazz-rock fusion, along with freeform jazz. But it’s really a love of endlessly exploring the piano and synthesisers, with all their unlimited sonic potential. I love to create ‘otherworldly’ abstract textures and atmospheres, music that has a sense of deep longing and mystery. Music that is both powerful and subtle; a sonic palette that is both huge and intimate. Music to journey to… travelling to the ‘inner’ landscapes of the imagination. And sonic surprises! It is vital to me to always try and push boundaries…which keeps the creative process spontaneous, open, vibrant and alive. New sounds help with that, and I’m unashamedly addicted to acquiring new synths and software sounds.
Like an empty canvas that presents new, unlimited possibilities in painting, empty silence presents new, unlimited possibilities in sound composition. For me, that is the most exciting feeling when creating new music…the ever-open, endless potentiality of silence sounding!
TRILOGIES
You have divided a lot of your releases into three series: The Star System Trilogy, The Harmonic Trilogy and the Source Quartet. What can you tell me about this?
“It’s a strange phenomenon. I sometimes get inspiration to do trilogies before starting the first part…often all 3 titles come at once, before recording begins! It’s all a mystery really! I’ve always loved so-called ‘trilogies’ in music and literature…the number 3 seems to resonate strongly. There is plenty of creative headroom when considering composing a series of closely-related albums. And the current ‘Source Quartet’ is more ambitious, as it’s going to be a 4 album process.”
How do you compose your music?
“One part of the process is I prioritise playing the piano for at least 1 hour a day, often late at night, when the world is quiet. Many new musical ideas come through at this time, especially the more melodic, structured pieces. Then there are synths! Again, late night sessions often yield great results…it’s like having access to unlimited musical spheres…all to yourself! The textural, abstract, atonal, atmospheric synth stuff often comes through best late at night. This music often seems to literally come out of nothing…out of the blue.
And like I said, walking in the wilderness is a great source of immediate inspiration too. However the compositions manifest, it is always a great joy to create new music, despite the inevitable challenges and frustrations.”
Your music is quite different from what many other electronic music artists create. Do you feel a connection with musical colleagues and, if so, which?
“I’m glad you feel that this music is different. In the ‘ambient’ sphere, I have been greatly inspired by the work of electronic pioneers like mid- 70’s giants Tangerine Dream,Vangelis, J.M.Jarre, Tomita, Tim Blake (from Gong)… and early Fripp/Brian Eno/Harold Budd. Along with the late 80’s work of Michael Stearns, Jonn Serrie, Constance Demby, and more recent contemporary ambient releases of good friend Rudy Adrian, and Kevin Kendle’s ‘Deep Skies’ series.”
As this is an interview with a progressive rock magazine, I have to ask you if you are also interested in this kind of music?
“Absolutely! I was a teenager growing up in the mid-70’s UK, so prog rock is a massive influence for sure. I bought all the prog rock classics as they were released, and listened to them incessantly, deeply and ardently! My favourite 70’s prog groups were Yes, Genesis, Floyd, King Crimson, Zeppelin, Gong, Focus, Supertramp, Camel, Santana, Soft Machine and T. Dream; favourite 70’s solo artists were pioneers like Mike Oldfield and Steve Hillage. Seminal prog rock albums like Close to the Edge, Selling England by the Pound, In the Court of the Crimson King, Dark Side of the Moon, Crime of the Century, Tubular Bells, Rubicon, Caravanserai, Green and so on, still sound incredible to my ears.
So long live prog rock!”
At the moment, there is a lot of interest in vintage electronic gear like the synthesizers from Moogs and ARP and the Mellotron. What is your opinion on this and do you use this gear? What can you tell me in general about the equipment you use?
“Analogue gear is awesome, no question! I love my Roland SH101 and Juno 60.
The textures and timbres from original analog beasts are unequalled in my opinion.
But having said that, I have enjoyed unlimited sonic mileage from my digital synths too! Current synths:
Yamaha Motif ES8
Korg Kronos
Korg R3
Korg Micro X
Korg 01W FD
Roland JP 8000
Roland SH101
Roland Juno 60
Virus Access TI polar
Novation Mininova
Waldorf Blofeld
Korg Electribe 2
I’m currently considering buying the Novation Peak desktop synth. A moog would be nice too!
Omnisphere is my absolute favourite software synth; an indispensable source of inspiration. Main outboard fx:
Strymon Big Sky Reverb
TC Electronic Flashback Triple Delay
Lexicon MX200
Line 6 Echo Pro Delay
Boss DD-20 Giga Delay
Alesis Quadraverb…my first ever fx unit!
Recording: Mac Pro, running Logic Pro X.
Monitors: active Dynaudio BM6A’s.
How would you describe your music?
“A tricky question! Perhaps the following descriptions give some indication. Otherworldly, powerful, subtle, complex, immersive, evocative, transformative, cosmic, mystical, expansive, and hopefully, emotionally engaging! It’s perhaps not immediate music…it takes quite a few listens to hear the more subtle sonic layering. I possibly spend more time on fine tuning the mix than doing the actual recording. I am an incurable perfectionist, which is a double edged sword! Capturing and retaining spontaneity is vital too. But I guess I am aspiring towards some kind of musical longevity, where the listener is constantly invited to go ‘deeper’ with each hearing.”
Tell me something about your latest album Freefall.
“Freefall was recorded over two periods, as I travelled for a few months mid-recording.
It is comprised of 3 long movements, where I have consciously attempted to create an atmosphere of deep mystery, weirdness, and childlike wonder. This probably sounds a bit grand when I suggest that Freefall is inspired by the sublime and unfathomable nature of existence!”
You release your music digitally and on cd. Since the album One from 2015 you switched from factory pressed CD’s to CDR’s. Why did you make that decision? “The reason is simply pragmatic. Sadly, CD sales have plummeted over the last 10 years. It’s no longer financially viable to print small CD runs, so I had to compromise to fulfil the desires of the remaining hardware fans (baby boomers like me!). However, the CDR’s are exactly the same sonic quality as CD’s, which is the main thing.”
Do you play live? If so, would you be interested in playing at a festival live E-day and E- live in The Netherlands?
“It’s been quite a few years since I did live work. And living in New Zealand is such a long haul from Europe, which doesn’t help! If I ever get offered live work, I like best to play an improvised acoustic piano set. But the exhausting travel aspect, now I’m nearly 61, seems to prohibit even that possibility!”
What is next on your musical list?
“The final part of the ‘Source Quartet’. We are currently moving house, but once that is complete, I’m eager to get on with creating new music in my new studio, and using some new synths! Some of the more melodic passages have already been loosely ‘sketched-out’ on piano. Then there are all those electronic sequences and textures currently floating in my head :) … I can’t wait to get recording again! The way I see it, artists who remain open-eared, open-hearted and open-minded, are available to receive truly progressive inspiration, whatever the medium. In conclusion, as long we are blessed by the continued inspirational presence of ‘the muse’, the creative possibilities are infinite…we just have to simply keep listening.”
Discography
1992: Octaves Of Infinity
1997: Starseed (Star System Trilogy, Volume 2-Sirius)
1998: Alpha Omega (Star System Trilogy, Volume 3-Andromeda)
2002: Alchemy
2004: Infinitive Octaves (Star System Trilogy, Volume 1-Pleiades)
2010: Essence
2011: Resonance (Harmonics Trilogy, Volume 1)
2012: Boundless (Harmonics Trilogy, Volume 2)
2013: Presence (Harmonics Trilogy, Volume 3)
2015: One (Source Quartet, Volume 1)
2016: Stillness Moving (Source Quartet, Volume 2)
2018: Freefall (Source Quartet, Volume 3)
2019: Currently working on the concluding part of the Source Quartet
Website: https://andrewforrest.co.nz/
Bandcamp: https://andrewforrest1.bandcamp.com/
CDBaby: https://store.cdbaby.com/Artist/AndrewForrest
~~~ . *** . ~~~ .*** . ~~~
Interview with Bert Strolenberg, E-dition EM Magazine, Holland
Interview with: ANDREW FORREST
Date: Jan 26 2010
Spacious and Expansive Multi-dimensional Realities: an interview with Andrew Forrest
Andrew, from your previous website I learned you first of all are an accomplished visual artist….
Yes, in the early 1980’s I went to a top London art college. After graduating, I worked as a freelance illustrator creating book cover art for several years. It was a great discipline, getting commissions from various publishers and being involved in the world of professional illustration. I thus became more confident as an artist.
Then I started painting my own fine art inspirations and more personal inner-visions, and in the late 1980’s began self publishing this art into postcards/greeting cards and posters. One thing led to another, and I slowly built a reputation around these paintings.
So where and how do your paintings fit in with your imaginative music? In what way are they similar, different or do they complement each other?
Well, I would say the paintings came from inspirations through exploring wild nature, the unconscious, anything mystical and magical. Also, personal visions were inspired through my then deep obsession with the so-called more ‘spiritual’ dimensions.
The music does in many ways compliment the art. I spend a huge amount of time in nature, and always have done. Now I have the mountains and forests and wild empty beaches to explore in New Zealand, which is a largely uninhabited country especially in the south island where I now live. I get a lot of music ideas and inspiration from being in the wild, away from mobile phones, incessant traffic and the increasingly suffocating 21st century material madness and stress we are constantly being subjected to.
The music is a direct result of my hermit-like existence…and my preference for living quietly and privately. There is a strong feeling of otherworldliness in the music, and indeed in many of the earlier paintings. I must be an incurable space cadet!
Would you say there’s some kind of cross pollination where a painting evolves in parallel with a composition? Or maybe a track inspired by a painting, or vice versa, or basically, did a cd image happen before or after the music?
There are no hard and fast rules about this. I don’t know about cross pollination, but there are many parallels where the painting reflects the music (and vice versa) in the ‘creative- process’ sense. Some paintings come out of nowhere…literally, out the blue. In the earlier ‘visionary’ art I would sometimes have very clear visions of the finished painting, although the outcome might result in something a little different.
The music is the same. For example, the last track on the “Infinite Octaves”-album “Beyond the Beyond” came totally spontaneously…again, out of the blue, from nowhere. A real surprise.
Conversely, I often hear whole pieces of music long before they get recorded…and the overall mood or flavour of that piece will somehow be retained until the music is finished.
Before you moved to New-Zealand, you were a UK-resident. What made you migrate, how did you make and how do you currently make a living?
There was a kind of window of opportunity in my life in the late 1990’s, where my UK commitments suddenly allowed for the possibility for a big life change. I was 40, and it was exactly the right time to explore New Zealand. I had wanted to come here several years earlier, but that proved not possible until 1998, and I had a strong intuition to come here and see if it could be a place for me to start a new life. It certainly was!
I made a living then just as I do now…through my creative work…selling original paintings, greeting cards and posters. And I had the first two cds released already, “Starseed” and “Alpha Omega”, so was starting to build up the music reputation alongside the art reputation.
Your music can be classified in various ways, such as new age, contemporary instrumental or even as easy-listening/chill-out. How would you describe it yourself?
In my music I am very interested to devise alternating movements, crescendos followed by quiet passages, with here and there repeating melodic motifs, in some ways echoing classical music structures. I like to express both power and subtlety, intensity and spaciousness. It is interesting for me to create sonic contrasts of light and dark, and all shades in-between. And to emphasise both melodic, structured passages (often in sequencer form or piano/string minor chord progressions) followed by more abstract, formless textural sections.
Andrew at his master keyboard (Yamaha Motif ES8)
Also, my musical grounding was in playing the piano, for many years prior to the first recording in 1992, and much of the work comes from that space of sitting for hours improvising at the piano.
I am happy with the term “contemporary instrumental”. Also, the terms Electronic Ambient, Deep Space music, and Cinematic Soundscapes seem to be appropriate. As you can tell, I am not happy with being labelled ‘new age’ so much!
Do you listen to other (electronic) music, and if so, what music has influenced you?
Absolutely! The list of influences is huge, and by no means just electronic.
Some examples of electronic favourites are e.g. early 70’s Tangerine Dream, especially the unbeatable classics “Phaedra”, “Rubicon” and “Stratosfear”…timeless, genuinely inspirational stuff. “Rubicon” is one of my favourite albums of all time, especially the closing section to part 2. I guess “Richochet” should also be in that list too!
Michael Stearns, most especially the absolutely brilliant “Planetary Unfolding”. I love his textures and structural approach to sound weaving. Also, “Encounter”, “Within the 9 Dimensions”, and the “Baraka” film soundtrack.
Jonn Serrie, especially “And the stars go with you”, both “Planetary Chronicles” cds, and “Stargazer’s Journey”
Jean Michel Jarre, especially “Oxygene”, “Equinox”, “Magnetic Fields”. Vangelis, especially “1492” and “Soil Festivities”
Steve Hillage, “Rainbow Dome Music” and “Green”
Tim Blake (Gong’s 70’s keyboard player).”Crystal Machine” and “New Jerusalem” cds.
Brian Eno/Harold Budd, “Plateaux of Mirror” and “The Pearl”.
Rudy Adrian, “Moonwater” and “Desert Realms”
Of the newer electronic music, I listen to is Kevin Kendle’s “Deep Skies” trilogy, Great spacey textures and subtleties.
Also the more subtle parts of Ozric Tentacles, System Seven and Eat Static.
I have always loved Pink Floyd, (anything up to the Wall that is), especially the late 60’s/ early 70’s deep space tracks like “Set the Controls for the heart of the sun”, “Cirrus Minor”, and most especially “Echoes” from “Meddle” etc.
As I grew up in the early / mid 70’s with all the great progressive rock bands like Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, Camel, Gong, Mike Oldfield etc.
I am probably very influenced by the more abstract, ambient-melodic segments in their music.
Also the impressionistic classical composers I love…especially Vaughan Williams, Debussy and Delius.
These represent just a tiny fraction of my favourites. The list is endless really.
Can your give a description your studio, plus the instruments and other gear that you have at your proposal?
My current studio is a large converted bedroom at the back of the house I rent. It’s not at all glamorous, but does the job of being a space I can retreat to and be creative in. “Infinite Octaves” was recorded here.
Keyboards/synths:
Korg 01W FD
Roland SH101
Roland Juno 60
Roland JP 8000
Ensonique Fizmo
Korg Micro X
Korg R3
Yamaha Motif ES8
Other equipment:
Akai CD3000 sampler and Akai Z8 sampler
Effects:.Aleisis Quadraverb
Lexicon MX200
Line 6 Echo Pro
Boss Giga delay
Computer recording: Mac Pro running Logic 8
Interface: Alesis MasterControl
Speakers: Dynaudio BM5 passive nearfield monitors.
Andrew’s favourite analogue synth (even without midi!)
So does technology often interfere in the process of creating music, as it can offer both limitations and possibilities? I heard you more or less encountered that “problem” when you started using Logic…
I sometimes get frustrated with technology…especially when I was first learning the Mac/Logic set-up. Working in a recording studio is a very exacting and precise science. I am a perfectionist by nature, which has its up and down side…sometimes I can get maybe too involved in trying to perfect a sound or effect, or with endless editing and mixing. It is important for me to keep the spontaneity and magic in the recordings as well. In every album there always seem to be some very happy accidents…seemingly unplanned, unpredictable moments that really make the difference! These magic “ghost in the machine” moments help to balance my innate perfectionism.
I put a lot of time and effort into getting the best performance and feeling in each moment of the music. However, I absolutely love creating new sounds and sonic textures, and it’s the positive, flexible, creatively unlimited side of technology that allows this to happen so readily now. There are so many possibilities to access and sculpt new sounds, both with the huge array of software synths now available, and the more hands on, tactile approach of playing a physical synthesiser. I especially love old analogue synths, and spend a lot of time getting weird and wonderful textures from them. For example, I spent over two years preparing new sounds just for the “Infinite Octaves” album!!
Sometimes I hear sounds in my head that are very otherworldly, beautiful, and impossibly subtle, and it can be very frustrating/impossible trying to find them or emulate them on a keyboard.
Logic sample of “Infinite Octaves” tracks
I heard you keep contact with Rudy Adrian. How did you two meet, did you two ever consider composing together?
Yes, Rudy is a lovely guy and I really like his more ambient, abstract cds. I can’t remember exactly how we first met, but New Zealand is a small place with a tiny population, so I guess it was inevitable that our paths would eventually cross. We have exchanged notes, ideas and sounds in each others studios. He helped me to get started with the Logic basics, and has given valuable feedback on unfinished tracks. I hope he will review “Infinite Octaves” soon! So, if you are reading this Rudy….? :)
It would be interesting to record together…at some time that might well happen.
Have you ever performed your music live, or considered do so?
Yes, but rather reluctantly, as my music is so multi-layered, and it becomes complicated to reproduce the sounds with only one pair of hands! I love performing solo improvised piano though, but rarely find the appropriate opportunities to do so.
What effect has nowadays music business, overall distribution and the continuing peek of online downloads to you?
Well there is no doubt that downloads, and just the enormous variety and amount of available music to buy has meant a significant reduction in sales. I never sold huge amounts to start with (!), but I guess I will have to eventually look into selling downloads from my website. I am very reluctant to do this, as the music pieces I produce tend to be very long compositions…often 15 to 30 minute pieces…and taking this kind of music out of the album context feels inappropriate somehow. We’ll see. It is an ongoing struggle to make a living from producing this type of music, but the new website is helping to make my work more accessible to the public.
However, in conclusion, nothing will ever stop me creating new music and art. Being creative is, for me, like breathing air…I cannot live without it! There is unlimited potential in the ‘blank- canvas’, both art-wise and music-wise. I am in love with that potential, and always will be until my last breath.
I have many music projects in the pipeline, and have already begun the initial preparations for the next cd, which will be released later this year.
After that, I have the idea to produce a new trilogy, and track titles and the potential three album titles are slowly taking shape. So there is still so much to explore and create, and the journey goes ever on!
Discography:
* Octaves of Infinity (mc; 1992)
* Starseed (Volume 2 “Sirius” in the Star-System Trilogy)
* Alpha Omega (Volume 3 “Andromeda” in the Star-System Trilogy)
* Alchemy (2002)
* Infinite Octaves (Volume 1 “Pleiades” in the Star-System Trilogy) (2009)
Website: www.andrewforrest.co.nz
© Bert Strolenberg
Artist: FORREST, ANDREW
Date of interview: Jan 26 2010
Description: Spacious and expansive multi-dimensional realities: an interview with Andrew Forrest
Interview with Justin St. Vincent
Director Founder, Xtreme Music, www.xtrememusic.org
April 13th 2010 Nelson, New Zealand
Justin’s question: “What is the spiritual significance of music?”
Andrew’s response:
“Throughout history, sound and music have been a window into other worlds; a universal medium to journey inwardly to other more refined dimensions. In the dream story of time, from early man onwards, be it the chanting of prayers, the banging of sticks, drumming, or didgeridoos, whatever was available, humans have sought to connect with the Timeless through sound. It is a scientific fact that plants grow quicker and become more healthy if they are exposed to the harmonising so-called “spiritual” music of Bach and classical Indian Ragas. If you sit a person down in front of a large gong and shower their aura with a gong “bath”, that too will produce a revitalising effect.
Conversely, sound can be used to create discord. The military have long since been utilising subsonic sounds to change the weather in war zones, and to disorientate, devitalise, and demoralise enemy soldiers. Of course the sounds of nature are extremely beneficial for inviting good health; waves on a beach, a gentle river, thunderstorms, birdsong, and wind in the pines. A week away in wild nature makes anyone feel so much better, so much more connected to the whole. We are surrounded by the music of planet earth.
From my perspective, the most important aspect about sound is that it is literally slowed-down lightwaves. Everything manifesting, all physical phenomena, are lightwaves moving at different frequencies. In the scientific sense, all creation is just energy, and energy is light. All visual appearances are reflected light. Nothing is solid. The ancient Rishis and seers of India saw this very clearly. Atoms, electrons, and quarks are empty space, just energy in constant motion. So if sound is simply slowed-down lightwaves, then it is the DOORWAY TO UNITY, ONENESS, SOURCE, BEING, LIFE, and ALIVENESS. Sound IS SOURCE MANIFESTING AS SOUND!
Quite literally, it is SILENCE SOUNDING, THE SOUND OF SILENCE. In the same way as movement is STILLNESS MOVING.
So if music has a certain resonance, it can quite literally rearrange all the molecules in a human body for better or worse. Music can be very emotionally engaging, and has the potential to transform and dissipate any stuck or painful emotion or memory held in the cells. That is the power of music. That is the potential of sound, be it constructive or destructive. Music with the appropriate resonance is an invitation into the TIMELESS, SPACELESS, IMMANENT, TRANSCENDENT reality of BEING, SOURCE, ISNESS, and ONENESS of the UNCONDITIONED, UNBOUNDED ENERGY THAT “WE” ALL ARE. Music can remind us that there is no separation anywhere, that imagined separation is only a dreamed-up hologram.
Sound can open us up to the possibility of seeing and experiencing that ALL THERE IS, IS ONENESS.”